New User Incentives

Proposals
,
21

Current list for voting on New User Incentives:

A) Increase PRE rewards (increase PRE reward budget per search, usage streak, referral etc).
B) Reduce/replace search rewards with PRE for other activities (search rewards budget by Presearch stays the same just different actions or ways of distributing).
C) Reward users with PRE for other activities (rewards by advertisers/sponsors).
D) Increase PRE utility (increases the uses and value of current and future PRE rewards and PRE holders).
E) Threshold (some change with the threshold mechanism) might be to allow users to combine “all” earned rewards to achieve the threshold faster.
F) Non-PRE rewards/incentives
G) Reward users with PRE for other activities once Presearch has established its own additional affiliate income.

My vote:
D.
F.
B.
G./C. Whatever can be accomplished quickest
E.
A.

What are your rankings for prioritizing New user incentives and why?

1 Like
22

Although I agree with the “classification” to “organize” all ideas into groups, I don’t think that we should vote for any ordering in “sub-categories”.

My preference is to opt for the most logical ordering of individual ideas (no matter the category).

Below is my “roadmap and ordering” of new ideas with respect to user incentives…

(Of course, these can be re-arranged if the team or the to-be-announced Presearch 2.0 plans do overlap or will introduce other items)

  1. Replace the current “search reward” system with a “usage reward system”. Instead of rewarding users the more they search… reward daily logged-in users who at least do 1 search a day with X PRE. This will stop “token-farming”, but will stimulate daily “regular” usage (no fake searches anymore to just get the maximum rewards).

Optional: this new system can be complemented with a “streak” mechanism, and/or Staking where stakers will get more daily PRE rewards. Both ideas were explained in the chats above.

  1. Allow usage and affiliate rewards to be used for consumptive usage. (This means no threshold is needed for consumption, only for withdrawals). For example, pay PRE to get AI search results (see #3 below), or use this PRE for “node staking” or “keyword advertising”.

Note: before allowing this, perform a “clean-up” where for example users who earned 300-1,000 PRE so far, and who did violate the TOS (after reviewing), their PRE tokens will be revoked.

  1. AI results. Introduce a consumptive feature to pay X PRE for each AI result (if selected by the user), let’s say 0.5 PRE per AI result. As new users will get 25 PRE… allow them to use this PRE (and earned usage or additional referral PRE) to “purchase” AI results. Optionally, give new subscribers Y days access to AI results just to try it out and get familiar with AI (think about 7 days access).

4A) Reward “higher-end” user activities (pay per click, pay per action) with PRE. Sufficient examples were given in the chats above. Either funded by advertisers/sponsors or funded by the “project”. (Start with campaigns as “Visit this sponsored URL and get XX PRE”.)

4B) Reward “higher-end” user activities (pay per click, pay per action) with other non-PRE rewards such as tokens, “free” products/trials, etc. (funded by sponsors/advertisers).

For both… a necessary condition, of course, is to attract new sponsors/advertisers, or “affiliate/sponsor income” by the project. (Later I will write a proposal about all means how the project may improve monetization, the “buy iPad” was just one example)

Anyway, the key idea is to…

  • Only reward regular usage.
  • Give more options and flexibility to use PRE rewards.
  • Stimulate PRE usage and/or staking.
  • Reward higher-end (in the marketing funnel) activities that generate income for the project (that can be partly re-distributed to active users).

Where (potentially new) users will have a reason to “subscribe” to the platform and be logged in (as this is the only way to get access to specific features/benefits and to earn PRE rewards).

Hence, to overcome the current “problem” that most users don’t bother to register (and be logged in), leaving the “known” userbase full of “token farmers” and people living in “developing” countries… while to acquire new advertisers/sponsors, “we” need (registered) users living in Tier1 countries.

1 Like
23

Build a better search engine. Market it heavily. Gain users. Once you’ve gained the users, advertisers will follow along with everything else The majority of users using search engines could care less about earning PRE tokens. Ones involved in the industry sure. But the regular joe does care, especially now, about privacy. They also want fast quality results. Features that others dont have are a bonus. . But this is a lot of talk about “charging” and “rewarding” users to gain them.

The team has already said they plan to implement search staking. This is great for those involved in crypto in general and the project. Also for easy battle against bots.

I think general marketing would help the most.

2 Likes
24

Yes, the Search Stake would put an end to that long battle against Token farmers because although they will still get free rewards the amount will be less than what we have now so the stake is a good option to bring value back to the system without abusing it, so it would be a good cleanup, of course marketing is also important but it is already working on all the points

25

The idea of this chat is to come up with ideas about how to improve the current search reward system as it’s currently not that effective to acquire new users and keep them onboard while still “costing” about 100K PRE per day. (You know only 1/3 of users logs in, for the regular average user it takes 1950 days to “earn” $30 with lots of annoying steps to finally get the rewards in “cash”, and it’s attracting the wrong group of users… token farmers).

Your first assumption that the majority of users care more about privacy and less about earning PRE, may or may be not true. But the better and more interesting the incentives and rewards, the more (potential) users will care…

Although I’m happy with the focus on “execution” and the concept of “better start with a MVP than over-analyzing, and do nothing or act too slow/late”, I don’t think that (the yesterday announced) Search Staking (MVP) will fully solve the problem of tokens farming, while the 90% reduction of PRE search rewards (from 0.1 to 0.01 PRE per search) won’t be appreciated by everyone.

(As I don’t have the full details about this new staking product… I assume that there will be a minimum staking amount of 1,000 PRE, and that the current withdrawal threshold will stay at 1,000 PRE)

So, for the regular user, who don’t want to stake, it will take 10x longer… over 50 years to reach the threshold…

So, for all those early adapters who tried out and used the platform and invited their friends… you are simply saying… screw you…

And as a result… in practice… there is also no incentive left to use the platform or invite friends and get an affiliate commission (only for those who got 40 referrals).

And the focus will shift to “crypto” users as only among them there are potential new users who want to stake PRE, and earn search rewards.

Completely ignoring all other users that have never downloaded a crypto wallet and/or swapped or traded a cryptocurrency. This group won’t start buying PRE on the open market for search staking.

Also, if you want to get a Tier1 CEX listing for USA citizens… this “potential new crypto users target group” can be very interesting for any CEX. (Just make a deal with the CEX were users can withdraw their 1,000 PRE to that particular CEX for free and easy swap for other token or fiat, and the CEX will get a new user!)

Also, again I have no info, what will happen after the Cosmo chain implementation, where users do stake from their own external wallet…

But will it be possible to revoke earned PRE search rewards (or staked PRE) if TOS are “violated” by token farmers?

I think it will be harder to revoke in comparison to the current (off-chain) system…

So, I just see this Search staking as the first step to make it less attractive for token farmers, but certainly not a great new system interesting to attract new regular platform users and keep them onboard.

The Search staking will be primarily interesting for current (or new) PRE holders/investors who don’t want to run a node, or current node operators who prefer an easier way to get APY on their PRE (instead of all the “complex” tasks to setup and manage nodes). Fine, if that’s your aimed goal, but…

I don’t expect many regular users (who don’t hold/invest PRE now) to buy PRE on the open market and stake PRE to get “a little higher” PRE search rewards as they earn nowadays.

Hence, the majority of current users (who now get search rewards) will be upset to see the rewards being decreased with 90%, and to see “disappear” the opportunity to “cash out” their already earned PRE tokens.

I’m not against (search) staking in general, but this aimed new reward system, with a 90% reward cut, is “forcing” regular user (our beloved early adapters) to stake, and is a bridge too far…

for just trying to make it harder for token farmers to earn rewards, which I think is questionable whether this is achievable anyway via this upcoming search staking (as long as the staking rewards are still based on the number of actual - including fake- searches).

Of course, we should aim for the best platform and user experience, but for marketing purposes… some incentive to try out the platform would be welcome and helpful to convert potential new users.

So, we better continue with this chat and think about how to really stimulate new users to try out the platform and give users incentives to stay on board.

1 Like
26

In general aspects the search Stake would eliminate the interest of scammers to make searches just to get pre something so necessary in this long fight against it, it will work similar to the nodes ie a user places an amount in stake for example 1000 pre and the person will earn pre reward according to the amount in stake, the more Pre the more earnings, we will have more information in the coming weeks, It should be live for all users within two months, Although before that comes the closed beta and then the open beta

27

So, it doesn’t matter how much you search, the stake rewards are fully dependent on the number of staked PRE? And there will be no minimum to stake?

28

Surely there will be a minimum amount, and you will be able to add more pre amount to get more reward, in the next weekly updates will be given details of the minimum amounts, how it will be done, Etc.

29

Sure, I will wait for the update…

My main concerns/questions…

A) is there still any relationship with the actual searches a staker is doing? So far, I thought that the idea is to reward stakers with additional search rewards (also to perform at least some form of activity, and not just passive staking)… in that case… the system will still “ reward” additional searches not for regular usage but for the sake to acquire more PRE (token farming).

B) whatever the new minimum Staking requirement… there will be a group of regular users who have earned less than this minimum and who need to search 10 times as long to acquire the same number of PRE as nowadays.

C) it’s less attractive for new potential users as they will “never” reach the threshold… or in 50 years…

30

We know so far that the rewards without stake would be 0.01 pre per search, we still don’t have details of the minimum amount of stake nor how much will be the maximum daily reward, of course the people who make stake is because they have already bought Pre for a long time mostly, surely they would be operators of nodes and would have keywords, ideally they would continue using the search engine normally, so there may still be standard for that, the token farmers do not buy pre, do not have nodes, etc only use the search engine to earn it for free so that’s what we want to eliminate.

The minimum transfer amount could also be lowered from 1,000 to a smaller amount but this has not been discussed so far.

31

I will provide any feedback after I see and understand the details of search staking and other roadmap items.

We want more users of presearch.com regardless of logged in or not. From a management and cost perspective initially the more users using the platform not logged in the better. But eventually if/when premium services and additional utilities are built out and made available we will want the logged users and email distribution to market those services to and increase the demand for the PRE token and the Platform.

Non-logged users will be attracted by better usability (quick and accurate search results), clean user interface, compatibility, non-biased better results, privacy, and other publicly available features that differentiate Presearch from other search providers.

Logged in users and non-logged in users may become more interested in being logged in if there is either
(a) incentives to do so like search or other PRE/ non-PRE rewards. These are all net costs for the project and should just be used to get people into the door. This should not be the end goal!

(b) the other reason and preferred use for having logged in users (end goal) should be to offer them innovative premium features and many utilities that require PRE. Whether the individuals buy PRE, earn the PRE, or use Fiat that then automatically converts and uses PRE to get access to premium services. This should be the ultimate goal of having logged users.

Advertisers get access to all users logged or not and only care about total searches and number of people they can advertise to. Advertisers don’t care who they have to pay.
However, if Presearch is trying to level the playing field, it should transform the advertising business model by turning it on its head. Instead of paying a centralized entity to get your ads in-front of people with Ad slot NFTs they could instead be paying decentralized users and Presearch DAO. This solves the issue of centralized corrupt organizations deciding what ads are displayed or not. This also allows everyone interested to build their own advertising business off of the Presearch platform.
This is equivalent of what Uber and Lyft did with the taxi industry. giving the keys to advertising profit to the people will create massive demand from entrepreneurs all over the world who will bring with them the users. How many more people use Uber and Lyft now than taxis?

All of my ideas track import metrics network.presearch recommendations. Attempt to increase users with better incentives, browser integrations, or innovative differentiators (could become great motes from other search providers). At the same time attempting to increase PRE utility, volume, value, and sustainability.

32

“The idea of this chat is to come up with ideas about how to improve the current search reward system” …

Well the title of the proposal is “New User Incentives”. Obviously “search rewards” has LONG been a part of that but perhaps there needs to be a thread just for search rewards.

Search rewards in general has been a MASSIVE thorn in the side of Presearch. Go on TG and it’s flooded with negativity about “withdrawls” and those focused on NOTHING but how much PRE they can “earn”. Is that the users Presearch is after?? Minuscule “rewards” will always be a PITA. I think the search staking will weed out the “bottom” feeders and be left with those really into crypto. Which will be great for those also not really wanting to run a Node.

For those not interested in crypto they won’t care. OR they might say hey …it’s easy enough (??) to by $50 worth of PRE and finally get involved a little more in the cryptoverse. This will come when Presearch makes it easy enough to buy (on the way with contract mod)

“I don’t expect many regular users (who don’t hold/invest PRE now) to buy PRE on the open market and stake PRE to get “a little higher” PRE search rewards as they earn nowadays.”

Becuase likely they don’t care about crypto. They are more interested in Privacy and non-biased search results.

I just don’t believe that “search rewards” is the end all be all mechanism for “keeping” OR getting new users. A minimal amount or rewards is a marketing ploy and always has been…NOW ,if they begin thinking …wow I could buy some to stake and actually really make an earning difference …good for us good for them!

I’ve never said we shouldn’t continue the conversation, it just that “New User Incentives” could include something other than paying people to use Presearch through “rewards”. Just the beautiful backgrounds are an incentive …if they get quality search results. That alone may be incentive enough. No trackers and privacy can be enough of an incentive. Not supporting “Big Tech” can be enough.

People have to INFORMED about all of these things which falls on the Marketing department.

I agree with @XRPRE wholeheatedly regarding “B/C” Reward users with OTHER activities not for just using a search engine. This is an EXCELLENT idea and would rid Presearch of the massive thorn of “search rewards”. In fact if we could do what he mentions in B/C I would prefer we eliminate all unstaked search rewards.

1 Like
33

Well, if you re-read my first reply in this chat, where I tried to “organize” this chat, you will see that I came up with the (expanded) goal of this chat (more than new user incentives, but also focus on incentives/rewards to keep users on board, and use the platform). I also started a form of classification in sub groups with new starting ideas in each group (as later incorporated and adjusted a little by XRPRE based on the discussion in this chat). My initial chat was primarily focused on the role of the PRE token (before emphasizing the importance of the benefits/features of the platform, and marketing)…

So, we agree about the importance of marketing and unique USPs that can be “reasons” for potential users to use the Presearch search platform (as privacy, no-tracking of search data).

But besides great features/benefits… we are talking about incentives and rewards… additional things the team can do to stimulate potential users to try out the platform and keep using it (and use in the marketing to convince potential users to try out the platform).

So far, the team used 2 incentive “methods”, PRE search rewards and the “bonus” of 25 PRE for the new user and the affiliate.

The 3 big disadvantages for users/referrers who earned PRE?

A) The 1,000 PRE threshold, where it takes the average user 1,950 days to achieve this threshold.
B) The fluctuating PRE token price… the lower the token price, the less interesting the rewards.
C) Lack of PRE usages… It takes a lot of efforts and costs to switch PRE for “cash”, and users can’t “consume” their earned PRE. They can only stake PRE to run a node, or stake keywords. Both activities where the average regular user has no interest in.

For the project, the 2 main disadvantages are:

  1. Token farmers, and additional management time and costs to fight them.
  2. Effects of lower Threshold. It will lead to a fleet of PRE withdrawals of (millions of) already earned PRE rewards.

So, that’s why we should look at all aspects as mentioned in the different sub groups to make the current incentives/rewards, PRE ecosystem, and affiliate marketing system more interesting.

I’m glad you like my ideas as classified under B/C, and do want to discuss these ideas.

I also understand that you like the new Search Staking concept…

So, let’s dive into the known concept details…

Now, primarily to stop token farming… we will introduce Search Staking, and cut down the rewards for non-stakers with 90% (from 0.1 PRE to 0.01 PRE per search).

Or to say it other words… the new Search staking PRE rewards are paid with this 90% cut.

The underlying idea is that farmers won’t spent their own money to buy PRE on the open market and put it “at risk” as the token price may decline.

But do we expect that current regular searchers will make the switch?

They also have to buy the PRE on the open market (very annoying and relatively costly process), transfer the PRE to their balance on the platform and stake them, and put these at risk.

(And yes, I know with the upcoming Cosmo chain, and new marketplaces, it will easier and less costly, but what comes first, the new Search Staking or the new chain?)

Looking at the numbers…

As almost all token farmers were “cleaned up”, we may conclude that with 100K PRE daily search rewards, 1 million searches, and average of 5 searches, about 200,000 regular users will get 0.5 PRE per day on average.

Now, we can ignore this (huge) group of early adapters who tested the current platform, and may think that we solve the token farming problem…

But I expect that the majority won’t like the 90% cut, with as result “unhappy” users with thousands of complaints on social media.

For the majority, they just see a 90% cut and “uninteresting” Search Staking alternative.

The new 0.01 PRE per search is so demotivating… and it also effect the affiliate program, and onboarding of new users…

as it will be even harder to “cash” the 25 PRE referral reward as the threshold of 1,000 won’t be achieved as “easy” as before.

Plus, where is the incentive to onboard new users, if these 25 bonus PRE for new users are “worthless”, and new users have to first buy PRE on the open market and stake them to get “any serious” rewards?

The risk of losing money by investing in PRE is probably the main reason why the majority of new users won’t buy and stake PRE… not because they choose the platform for privacy reasons above “rewards” reasons.

If you make the rewards attractive enough, it will help to convince (a huge group of potential new) users to try the platform and keep using it.

For marketing reasons, it’s so much easier to promote “Search and earn PRE” in comparison to “Stake, Search, and earn PRE”.

Plus, new users will look at the potential benefits of “earning and saving” PRE. After the 90% cut… the rewards are just so ridiculous low…

Now, we don’t know all details but let’s assume that the Search Staking will be set up like the current node staking.

So, the rewards are calculated based on 2 measurements:

A) Time-based staking based on the number of PRE staked with a decreasing scale. The more PRE staked, always the higher the rewards, but relatively lower rewards. So, for example, for 1K PRE staked you may earn 1 PRE per day, while for a 2K stake, you will get 1.5 PRE… for 3K stake, 1,75 PRE, etc.

B) A small number of PRE for each actual search, with 25 searches per day maximum.

And let’s assume that users can immediately claim, withdraw (24 hours waiting period), or re-stake the PRE rewards, just like as now with the nodes.

Now, I immediately see 3 potential problems…

  1. What to do with the already earned PRE (below threshold)?

These are still “locked up”.

Should this user be allowed to withdraw if the total sum of “old” earnings and “new” earnings will reach the threshold?

And if so… this should be built into the new system.

  1. As users are still stimulated to search to earn more PRE… there will always be some users who do “fake” searches just to earn more PRE.

  2. As the time-based rewards will (probably) based on a decreasing scale… it’s more beneficial to stake 1K PRE in multiple wallets/accounts. For the nodes this is less of a potential problem as it requires to set up a new node, but it’s relatively easy (with neglecting costs) to setup multiple accounts/wallets.

So, the new system still needs “checks and reviews” to fight “misuse” of token farming and creating multiple accounts. For both the old and new system.

Hence, overall… maybe we are throwing the baby out with the bad water… with this replacement of the current system with a 90% cut of rewards and new Search Staking system.

For me, there is no need to rush this new Search Staking.

So, I hope that Tim Enneking will start to join this discussion as I see several “unwanted” possible consequences.

1 Like
34

taken from latest weekly wins:

  1. New formula for search staking live
  2. New 48 hour time lock on search staking tokens to prevent gaming
  3. New 25 PRE incentive for all new users

Presearch reduces/replaces old search rewards with other incentives. I like that but. As mentioned there are issues with search staking and they are already starting to have to combat those (2.) as predicted. I do like the 25 PRE signup for all users and an additional 25 for referrals but I think they could have used non-PRE incentives like AI access for a week or a month for new users instead of the 25 PRE. That will quickly become unsustainable unless of course they develop additional consumptive PRE utilities that allow users to leverage their usage rewards.

//
The current PRE utilities are all a drain on the treasury or stagnant tokens. There are no consumptive PRE utilities that actually put PRE back into the Treasury. The roadmap should reprioritize consumptive PRE utilities the sooner you get net PRE INFLOW to treasury the sooner the project is sustainable.

That may mean you have to give some ownership and future profit potential away to people who will bring the user base. That should be OK, as long as PREsearch is still getting a piece of the bigger pie!

35

One of the activities that Pre will return to the system is the new keyword model, Of course other functions can be developed or adapted for that as well, Currently what is done is that part of the income obtained is used for Pre repurchases, but if it is necessary to implement consumption in Pre

36

I like the idea of AI usage being tied to streaks. Like if you lose your streak you lose the AI and have to go back to square 1 building back your streak for access.

I don’t understand the whole NFT thing at all. I’m sort of an idiot at crypto stuff, so maybe save that for node people who are more tech savvy than me.

I emailed about becoming an ambassador, so maybe I could create the video you need about how to set Presearch as a default search engine on different browsers.

Streak badges and anything that gamify the experience is a good thing like leaderboards. I’m imagining earning a goofy little pet and then your usage feeds the pet and then the pet hatches or evolves or whatever and you can share it on social media with your referral code. And then when you learn something cool via AI you can generate an image of the pet with a speech bubble containing the AI generated text to share to social media with your referral code. Haha don’t listen to me I’m crazy.

1 Like