PRE value increase (instead double max supply)

Instead of doubling the max supply (like a stock split, which always is interpreted bearish), Presearch should adjust the min amount for nodes to 10K. Or cut the rewards of the 4K nodes in half, maybe by 5% per week (finally like a halving effect, see Btc).
Additionally increasing the use case of Pre is the best way to go to increase its value. Just have no clue how myself :).

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I don’t think or at least didn’t glean from the team or any AMAs that the intent is to double the max supply of the PRE token. They do plan to add another chain (Cosmos initially likely to be followed by other chains in the future) but there are ways to ensure the total circulating supply is never more than 500 million.

ex: If all tokens are currently ERC-20 on the Ethereum chain they are planning a bridge that will allow you to move from ETH to in this case Cosmos. The ERC-20 would go into a multi-sig custody vault and once confirmed on the ETH network the equivalent amount of PRE on Cosmos can be minted and sent to your Cosmos wallet. If/when you want to go back to ETH which most will not unless that chain gets un-f###ed you will bridge back. In this case the smart-contract will confirm two things (1) there is an equivalent amount or more of the ERC-20 PRE in the ERC-20 vault if not then it should stop there and disallow to ensure there is never more than the 500M in total circulation. (2) it will confirm the Cosmos PRE was sent and settled to the multi-sig custody vault, once confirmed the ERC-20 will be released and sent to your ERC-20 wallet.

They mentioned they are looking strongly at increasing the node stake minimum which they have done multiple times 1k → 2k → 4k… likely 4k → 8k? This will make it more difficult to roll node profits into more nodes and requires a higher cost in PRE for new node operators.

Decreasing payouts will have negative consequences unless the price of PRE increases as currently designed this is because some of the higher quality better performing nodes are more expensive to operate. If you decrease rewards those node operators may shift to cheaper nodes decreasing overall performance of the platform. One way they could decrease rewards is if they paid lower performing nodes less than the better higher performing nodes. There are pros and cons to taking this approach.

Your last comment is the most important and something I am very strongly supportive of. To me this is the only thing they should be focused on within the Monetization / tokenization lane! YOU MUST INCREASE PRE UTILITY!!! THIS IS WHAT GETS PEOPLE BUYING AND USING IT! 100%

It makes all currently held PRE and any future rewards more valuable because there are things you can use it for the MORE THE BETTER. Not everything will be enticing to everyone but having lots of utility will get different people to use it for different purposes.

I am also not keen on just locking all the PRE up in different staking models this becomes dead PRE it must be balanced with consumptive uses so PRE flows more rapidly especially with only 500 million total supply the only way this works is if PRE flows through many hands very quickly. Otherwise there won’t be enough PRE to service future demand. The more recurring PRE income the project has (consumptive utilities) the more PRE the Treasury will have to increase adoption via marketing, rewards, and giveaways.

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Hello Thanks for participating in the Community Forum, as I had said the contract will be updated to allow up to a billion Pre to be minted that does not mean that the team will bring the supply to 1b in fact they have not decided anything yet regarding to that, in that sense it is best to wait for a next weekly update where they mention it

As Tim E said in last update, they will likely do something to stem or stop growth once more searches are being performed. The most logical first step is simply increase the amount to stake a new node. In fact I am in favor of doing that now. Perhaps 10k like you say or even more. I would probably triple it to 12k. It can always be lowered later.

Cutting the rewards to node runners who have years and monthly fiat invested in the project is not the way. I have nodes i LOSE money on monthly (Mostly those in Taiwan, Malaysia and ME). As @XRPRE said, it would cause operators to move all nodes to NYC as that is typically cheapest.

In fact, new Node roles are forthcoming like IPFS. Storage is more expensive than chopped up Vcpus. I would expect MORE $PRE paid as new Node roles are implemented and likely the monthly cost to those maintaining them.

Lowering the amount of FREEbie $PRE for searches is a great first step. If you have to pay someone to use your product, it’s probably not a great product. Sorry but thats the truth as I see it. “Sell” the product on its qualities and why its better than the competitors (privacy, non biased, freedom, built by the people for the people, great results, fast results etc etc) Big thing missing for us is Presearch’s own index.

As far as a penalty for low performing Nodes. There already is one. Testnet, and it happens automatically.

I also agree that increasing the use case of $PRE is vital and that is also on the way in the form of homepage takeovers and keyword staking both of which put PRE back into the treasury. XPRE has some good ideas on this but I think PREMIUM features may be key. It is early but the current roadmap is awesome!

User growth is absolutely imperative. That is what will open many many doors.


Nope that is not what they are planning. They do not have enough tokens for,

  1. Node rewards
  2. Search rewards
  3. For marketing (payouts for influencers by PRE)

As they said. They have not planned for additional PRE for team.

This is what they said. But who knows what happen. The are not transparent about their financial data or never have been.

Transparency matters. Otherwise our hard work will be paid to other parties which make more dropping of price.

I call this is inevitable due to Bad Management of Time and Funds during last years. But who will paid for this. The community itself.

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Homepage takeover is good hopefully they build a payments page that allows payments in PRE from
1 self custody
2 presearch wallet on platform
3 presearch rewards

4 fiat

Then use the payments page for increasing PRE utilities.

-Sell swag/merchandise this is free marketing start small and grow merch overtime with user demands
-homepage takeovers (should be available to anyone)
-consumptive keywords
-sell search API access on a monthly subscription
-sell AI access 1-day, 1-week, 1-month consumptive PRE or fiat. This could expand to other AI APIs
-allow users to purchase AI consumptive access or 10k stake for other usernames. If I wanted to give someone access for a day, week, month or more as an additional incentive for them to start using presearch give us this option. I could enter the username and stake 10k or pay a consumptive rate to give that user AI access.
-sell community search engine NFTs that increase with the number purchased.
-eventually PRE subscriptions to these communities
-sell ad slot NFTs for other types/locations of ads that also require PRE to enter into the ad displayed rotation.
-give current NFTs utility like 5%-10% discount for all payments. You can always add more utilities in the future.
-NFT marketplace for buying and listing NFTs where presearch could take a percentage of all sales and resales.

Hello, as mentioned at some point the foundation transition will be able to transmit much more transparency about the data, there is still supply for rewards in general and the contract was updated with the intention of being able to increase the supply if necessary, in the roadmap you can see all the developments to come and their time range for execution in that sense there will be more transparency with the addition of Tim and his team

What I emphasized is the team had every chance to be transparent about the financial status but never did. Such that it is their task to make people believe which can not expect just from “soon, in future kind of words”. Even now they have the chance but still no one cares.

So on what ground we can trust? I mean about the financial aspects. There is none for me.

Many developments were delayed and the team was focused on priorities, All these aspects are important for the team and we will surely have a monthly report perhaps that indicates the financial data, That has only been mentioned at some point but it is not something that has been discussed recently so it is best to wait for more information.

I would like to reiterate the importance of PRE utilities. The current draw on PRE treasury reserves for rewards is approximately 380k-400k PRE / day [80-100k search rewards and ~300k node rewards] or around 12million PRE / month. With 305 million PRE locked in stakes that is only a max of 195 million available for continued rewards. Assuming all 195 million are owned by Presearch treasury that is less than 16 months of available rewards assuming thing’s don’t change much.

It is good to see a roadmap and potential near-term actions to begin to move the project forward and address this sustainability issue.
The following announcements/mentions I assume are in part to address this challenge:
(1) changes in the search rewards which may reduce the total rewards paid out for searches. This would hopefully reduce the 80k-100k daily draw to a lower daily rewarded amount extending the treasury PRE runway. Yet to be seen on the details and implementation of this though.
(2) Increasing node minimum stake is anticipated based on Tim’s recent comments and when implemented should slow the growth of nodes and therefore a slow in the delta outflow of PRE for node rewards. Although less new nodes will be created, most will maintain their nodes and PRE earned will likely be re-staked on nodes. The total outflows every month for node rewards are likely to remain the same and increase, just increase at a slower rate.
(3) The announced 1% + PRE buy backs will buy PRE back currently at a lower price than is being rewarded out .035 vs .07 so this should have a positive impact on extending the rewards runway but if too many people continue to hold it may backfire instead.

We can see these efforts and the stated Priorities (Income; Token flow; and Searches) are clearly ordered at attempting to address the rewards sustainability concern. IMHO these are partial improvements; the only thing that will fundamentally change the outflow dynamics are PRE utility.

I lay all this out to reiterate the importance of adding PRE utilities. Why? Without additional enticing PRE uses the token flow doesn’t change much, it continues on a net outflow from the PRE treasury albeit at a slower outflow rate. All current holders (self custody, node runners, and searchers) are likely to continue to hold and accumulate at these sub .10 prices. Therefore, anticipated purchases via buybacks once the cheap PRE .035-.07 is bought off the open market the buybacks will begin to yield less PRE to the treasury. I do like staking utilities from a supply and demand perspective but staking alone does not put PRE back into the treasury it encourages PRE to be accumulated and not used or sold. Staking utilities must be balanced with a healthy amount of enticing consumptive uses for PRE. The consumptive uses and/or high PRE token prices are the only positive things that will get people to relinquish PRE tokens. If we rely only on buybacks to get PRE flowing back into Treasury, what happens if prices don’t get high enough to entice holders to sell or the 1-20% of income generated for buy backs is not enough to offset the reward outlays? What if it takes years to get greater adoption and quality searches high enough to entice substantial advertising money? I am quite aware that a price increases above .07 will reduce the PRE outflows for rewards but there will also be pressure to maintain a .07 PRE to maximize reward payouts. The logical conclusion of this is to entice searchers, node runners, and other holders to USE their PRE CONSUMPTIVELY. Advertising eventually will be the most likely mechanism to sustain or even increase rewards but we need 10x or more in quality searches to start to get that ad investment. Therefore, the best thing to do in the near-term IRT token flow is to create other enticing CONSUPTIVE USES for PRE. If you increase PRE utility for consumptive uses search rewardees, node runners, other holders, and even new users may likely view those utilities as more valuable than holding PRE and use their PRE or actually purchase PRE for those utilities putting less pressure on buybacks. Every user, search earner, and node runner you can get to use PRE consumptively reduces net outflows.